Windows 8’s Biggest Bug


It has been almost a year since my oldest son stepped on my laptop and broke the screen away from the keyboard. My stomach was doing flips not because of my lost laptop but because I knew that the new one would have Windows 8. I searched and searched for a new laptop with Windows 7, but Microsoft had laid down the hammer on the computer manufacturers and it seems that by February 2013, it was no longer possible for a consumer to buy a new laptop with Windows 7.

So I bit the bullet. I tried to approach the entire experience with a positive attitude. I knew about all the frustrations, and I set about the task of making my new laptop and Windows 8 usable. There was not a start button, and it was frustrating to figure out where they hid everything, but that was just a minor obstacle. It was time consuming to break the bridge from the Windows world to the tiled world. For example, if you someone sends you an email with a few photos. If you click on one of the photos, BAM, you are in the tiled world looking at the first photo. The problem is how do you look at the second photo? Somehow, you need to get back to the email program. The solution is to not use the Metro photo viewer, and use the same photo viewer (or any other Windows photo viewer) that was available in Windows 7. The problem is that there are a lot of bridges between the two worlds. But over time, I found them all and I had it working reasonably well.

Except for the one bug which I never resolved. There is a more-than-annoying problem when you move your cursor from the left of the screen to the right of the screen. For example, if you are scrolling down a web page using your mouse and the scroll bar, and then decide to use the back button which is frequently on the upper left of the screen. Windows 8 detects this situation and decides that you don’t want to move the mouse from left to right. No of course not. You want the Charms Bar! Now that the charms bar is activated, the window in which you were scrolling has been deactivated. So if you want to continue and hit the back button in your browser. You need to first activate the browser window again and then move the back button.

This was happening a lot. I did all the mandatory Google searches and tried in vain to find a fix to this bug. I changed registry keys and as a last resort I called Microsoft. They could not help either. It is not fair to call it a bug because this is how Microsoft wants it to work. The problem is that I don’t want it ever to work this way. So despite all of the hours tediously configuring Windows 8, I moved back to Windows 7 paying an old tech friend of mine to take me out of my misery. I hope that my boy does not break another laptop or at least he waits until Microsoft figures out a work around to this bug.

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99 thoughts on “Windows 8’s Biggest Bug”

  1. Having difficulty with printing E-mail documents (i.e. attachments with Windows 8 and 8.1. Many hours with Sony and Cannon produced nothing.

  2. WTF is a “charms’ bar and is a drunk leprechaun involved? This all sounds like win 8 sux, if I wanted “apps” instead of progs I’d go buy and I-fone! No wonder so many idiots are crashing cars because they a are messing with charms on phones rather than talking on them. Wonder how many kids wont be able to actually use a computer because they will have no clue how to work software because its not an “app.” Instead of this crap why don’t they just work on giving use the Star Trek type of computer where you just talk to it?!!

  3. agreed! I stupidly thought this post would be about a "real" bug and would be something beneficial to me. Thanks for wasting our time! I find it really lame imho that you are bothered by this that much, as if it takes away sooo much time from your day to just reactivate your browser window! smh!

  4. There are plenty of apps on the web that allow Windows 8 to work in the "traditional" way. I'm using Start8 which provides a start menu and the "normal" display of the desk top. I very seldom use the tile screen.

  5. I know exactly what your problem is. Your laptop has a trackpad that has windows 8 gestures enabled. That means that it will treat your trackpad is if it were the screen on a tablet or other touch-enabled device, and will detect swiping from left to right as opening the charms bar. Go into the advanced settings for your trackpad and you can disable it. It’s not a difficult fix. Please don’t bash windows 8 for a feature that your laptop manufacturer added in.

  6. I use Start 8 from a company called Stardock. I think it cost $5.00 and it makes the screen exactly like Win 7 or even XP. The tiles format is still available if you want and you can switch between the two by clicking in the lower left corner

  7. No matter how hard I try in my Windows 8.1, I cannot reproduce this so-called “bug.” I am using mouse and keyboard on my 4 year old 22″ monitor. Besides, all you have to do is change some settings – for example, disabling the corners. And, goodness, what a lot FUD is floating around out there.

  8. How to find these spam free malware free programs? Any recos? I am terrified to download stuff I cannot find on windows 8 store.

  9. Great post. I notice the comments stating that you haven't tried hard enough. These techno-geeks don't get us normals. Windows 8 is a pain in the ass. If I wanted to get back into code work, etc. I would start with DOS again.

      1. I don’t know where you got that idea. Windows 8 blows away my Windows 7 by a mile for speed and stability. I have them both installed in a dual boot configuration. There is no comparison and they are both running on the same exact hardware. I probably have double the number of software installations on my Windows 8 than I do on Windows 7.

        As I said in another post, there is a LOT of misinformation and FUD out there.

        1. @Draclvr: Thanks for your comment. Please try to install Microsoft visual studio, SQL server, and ESRI ‘s Arc GIS, on the same hardware, but different OS (windows 7 and 8) and see the result. Windows 8.0 works perfectly for simple softwares.

          1. Ah, yes, that would be a horse of a different color. You are correct that I don’t have any huge resource hogs installed. I built this computer and it has some pretty hefty hardware in it – A super fast CPU and 16 GB of RAM – so that might make a difference too.

    1. I have a very close 89 year-old friend who absolutely loves Windows 8 and after upgrading to 8.1 likes it even more. I have upgraded 4 people to 8.1 and after about 15 minutes of providing basic details about how to navigate and find their own solutions to issues, they also love it. And these people are complete Luddites. I think when you go in hating something, the outcome is inevitible. I’ve read at least 6 complaints in this thread that are simple settings which take all of 30 seconds to look up and resolve. I admit Windows 8 and 8.1 do not spoon feed you, but perhaps we’d gotten too complacent. If Microsoft doesn’t move forward, they will be left in the dust by other more innovative companies. Was the roll-out of Windows 8 a disaster? ABSOLUTELY! They have a lot to answer for in my opinion. But, if you think they are going back to the Dark Ages of XP, you are going to be mightily disappointed.

  10. What I find funny is that most people who are happy with Windows 8/8.1 use some form of app/program to change the fundamental aspects of the new OS.
    Don’t you like all the new stuff?
    Did you miss your start menu?
    Do you like your OS so much that you would rather have 5 Clicks to shutdown instead of say 1 or 2?
    The Os was meant to make things more fun, fluid and all touchy.
    Fun= hunting down ways across the net to bring your system back like it used to function ( within reason)
    Fluid= Moving between programs once you’ve accidentally opened you email and find your back in metro.
    Touchy= How many have touch screens? not the same with a mouse is it?
    Maybe you can get two mice and use them like fingers.
    Windows 8 user interface is the single crappiest thing that Microsoft have come up with in years.
    The underlying OS ( not the interface ) may be better and more streamlined than 7, so why not have released 8 with all the touchy crap disabled until people decide to enable it.
    Well, now the cart is in front of the horse.
    Well done Micro-apple.

  11. A far worse bug in Win8.1 is the stupid and unenforceable requirement that all computers in a workgroup have their system clocks perfectly synchronised. This is supposed to prevent unauthorised computers joining the group (I thought that’s what the workgroup password was supposed to do?), but what it actually does is to prevent any computer joining.

  12. Never had this problem at all. I don't know, if he's using a touch screen monitor or laptop, maybe it would happen. I'm still using my old HP vs17 flat monitor and a wireless keyboard and mouse. I always go to my browser from the desktop (which can be reached in one click from the tile mode) and I've never had the charms pop up from a webpage.

  13. I have this same problem. If my mouse gets anywhere near the top right corner, I get the charms bar. To use the X box on the top right of any page, I must “sneak” up on it very gently, or the charms bar comes out and covers it up. This system was designed by idiots!!!

  14. Quit your whining — your “bug” can be disabled in Windows 8.1. You can disable the corners and edges in Windows 8.1. go into PC Settings and select “PC and Devices.” Then select “Corners and Edges” and turn off “When i point to the upper-right corner,s how the charms.” Bingo. Bug gone. I am so sick and tired of all the whining about Windows 8/8.1. With just two $4.99 add-ons, Start8 and ModernMix from, you can be back in Windows 7, but with the greater speed, stability, and foregiveness of Windows 8/8.1

    1. @Dan Lauber: So sick and tired of all the whining about Windows 8/8.1? I think you may be forgetting that not everyone is as tech minded as you Dan: some people only know how to do the basics and don’t have the time or inclination to investigate all the system tools etc.

      I don’t care much for Windows 8 myself because settings that were nearly all available in the control panel in previous versions now seem to be scattered all over the place and are not always very easy to find. But as I am retired, I have plenty of time to explore the OS and all its nuances whereas people who work full time and are out of the house 9-10 hours per day simply don’t want to have to hunt high and low for settings that they don’t even know exist!

      So please try and remember that next time you feel like throwing your hands in the air.

      1. Sheri, the Control Panel hasn’t changed. Everything you were used to finding in Windows 7 is the same. You don’t have to hunt for anything. Don’t know where something is? Start typing it in the Start page and there you have it. Want to pin it so you don’t have to search again? Right click…

  15. I would love to upgrade my laptop to Linux but dont have a clue where to begin. My computer shipped with Vista and I upgraded to Win 7 but had issues with finding drivers. My concern is that migrating to Linux will give me more driver headaches.

    1. @Edmundo 51: take a little trip to ‘’ and find the download to suit your hardware (32- or 64-bit). Download the ISO image and burn it to a DVD’ Restart your computer from the DVD and let the installer partition your hard drive to allow dual-booting. You can then boot into either Linux or Windows every time. Drivers can sometimes be a problem as many manufacturers won’t release Linux compatible drivers – but the joy of open source is that someone else probably has! If you really can’t find a driver for a peripheral, just boot into Windows for the odd occasion you just *have* to use that one. It’s what I do.

    2. @Edmundo 51:
      In my experience, WinVista drivers usually work with Win7. I have heard that they also usually work with Win8/8.1, but I haven’t tried this because I’m still using 7 until the computers die and I have to get something with 8.x.

  16. Microsoft Windows 8.1 is the worst OS I have ever experienced. I Wish some REALLY smart lawyer would bring a Class Action suit against Microsoft and bring them down a notch or two. Maybe even get Windows 7 back, without loosing my new laptop Warranty. This NON USER FRIENDLY OS is worthless to me. I should of rebuilt my old laptop, instead of replacing it. WHAT A HUGE MISTAKE!

  17. That is a problem for me also – move the cursor too far over and the charms appear and then the tiles appear. I guess I am quick draw McGraw with the mouse pad. I have 8.1 too – I prefer an alphabetical list of my programs rather than the tiles this way I can find them. I don’t use most of the apps – they are just clutter.

  18. Maybe it is because I have dual monitors or because I have Classic Shell but I cannot bring up the Charms menu on the left most side of my left screen, but the area is well above the back button even if it worked on my system.

    1. @Richard Remmele: How do you boot to Desktop on Windows 8? I installed Start Menu 8, to get back the classic start menu and bypass the metro screen.

      But I disagree emphatically that once you are on Desktop, you are essentially in a slightly improved Windows 7 environment because this is simply not true. It would be, if Desktop included the classic start menu but without it, there is no easy way to see a complete list or open any of your programs or Windows features and accessories. Thank heavens for 3rd party apps that allow users to get all that functionality back because without them, I would have had to pay someone to replace Windows 8 with Windows 7 – because Microsoft make it nigh on impossible for any average user to do this themselves, what with Secure Boot etc.!

      1. Have you tried right clicking in the very lower left corner? Disk management, task manager, control panel, event viewer, system and 11 of your other most-used shortcuts all in the same list.

      2. Besides, the right click in the lower right to get your menu, you cannot boot to desktop in Windows 8. That is a feature in Windows 8.1.

  19. I tried to duplicate his bug and I cannot. I took this article made it full screen and started scrolling with my mouse on Desktop.

    I tried everything to bring up the charms bar. I could only do it if I went below the article to the task bar and went into the right corner. Same on the top, I had to go past the article and above my tabs to go to the topmost right corner to bring up the Charms bar.

    Also, even if I did that it did not change anything, as soon as I moved back to the article, I was right there scrolling again.

    I know there are some annoyances but changing to the include Windows Photo Viewer in the Control Panel and every once in awhile confronting the Charms bar when you accidentally go to the extreme top or bottom right corner is not worth paying someone to give me back an old operating system

    Also since he had a Windows 7 laptop and was, I would thing, using the same programs on Windows 8, why was he even going to the Front End except to play with the apps.

    Does anyone know what he is talking about.

  20. You should have tried mouse settings under control panel.Under mouse properties, select tab “EdgeAction” and untick all tickmarks.

  21. One of the bugs no one talks about has to do with the icons on the desktop. Why can’t we drag and move them the way we want?

  22. File Locking failures are so fundamental in an operating system that getting that wrong is completely unforgivable.
    But whoever came up with the windows 8 interface was a genius.
    I can’t imagine a more effective way of encouraging users to upgrade to Linux.

    1. @Phil:

      I find it unbelievable that with all of the negative feedback MS received during the beta/consumer preview, that they released this mess as-is. Insult to injury- releasing “8point1”, and charging full-price–> for what is essentially a service pack to fix the very worst of their own stuff-up! However, their PR is good & they know where & when to plant their fan-boys/molls.

      But, take heart! Win 9 is just around the corner- & announcement is that it will look much more as it ought to (7)- a relief to the majority of users NOT concerned with trying to appear hip or progressive.

      I can tell you this- after a day out fixing MS computers, I am sincerely grateful for my Linux Mint OS.

      1. @Tracy: ‘They’ do not charge anything for the Windows 8.1 upgrade – it is free to everyone who has Windows 8.0!

        But how close round the corner is the general release of Windows 9 due? Because if it’s due within the next 6 months, I will hold off buying a retail version of Windows 8/8.1 and wait until Win 9 is released:-)

        1. @Sheri:

          I tried posting this before but it disappeared after hitting, “post comment”.

          I realize users of 8 get 8point1 for nothing (if MS charged THEM, too, it would be even worse!).

          It is not misinformation (Draclvr) to state that this is the first time a “beta” (hence the “point1”), which should have been a SP, is being SOLD—> to new users wishing to upgrade- & that is what MS is doing.

          My original statement is best case scenario: wait for 9. If you cannot– use Linux Mint, temporarily. Even using it from a bootable thumb/flash drive & storing created files to your Windows HDD is a far better experience than 8.

          Imho. It’s your call, of course. 🙂

          1. And I stand by my statement about misinformation. Windows 8.1 is NOT a Beta. It is not even a Service Pack as in a “package” of bug fixes and updates in the old meaning associated with XP, Vista and Windows 7. Windows 8.1 is a complete UPGRADE of the original Windows 8 operating system. Using words like “sold” puts out the idea that it’s not a free upgrade for your original Windows 8. As you say, it is an option and some people have opted not to upgrade, but they are missing out on a ton of improvements that – for me anyway – should have been included on the original release of Windows 8. If you think Windows 9 is going to take a huge detour, you are sadly mistaken. Although it’s all rumor at this point, everything I’m reading indicates the Modern UI stays, but there may be nods to desktop users with the ability to pin Modern UI apps to the taskbar etc.

            1. @Draclvr: Win8.1 has “a ton of improvements”? Like what?

              As I already posted, I have 8.1 and the biggest change for me is the stupid requirement that all computers in a workgroup have perfectly-synchronised clocks, meaning that I can no longer connect since “upgrading”. Hence I am trying to revert to 8.0 so as to get my network back, and if I can’t I will have to format the drive so I can install 7.

              I agree that Microsoft seems to be doing their utmost to promote Linux.

            2. @Draclvr:

              “Windows 8.1 is NOT a Beta. It is not even a Service Pack as in a “package” of bug fixes and updates in the old meaning associated with XP, Vista and Windows 7”.

              Semantics- it is a paid-for, patched, in-between OS for new users coming from XP (the major ones moving to 8(.1). For those running 8- it is a patched, in-between OS.

              “Windows 8.1 is a complete UPGRADE of the original Windows 8 operating system”.

              I think you mean, “over-haul” (not “upgrade”),it is a major fix-up, prop-up, a putting-right of a cock-up that was pointed out as such from day-dot.

              “Using words like “sold” puts out the idea that it’s not a free upgrade for your original Windows 8”.

              I never said it was not free coming from 8- that is your own, personal misconception & misinformation.

              “As you say, it is an option and some people have opted not to upgrade, but they are missing out on a ton of improvements that – for me anyway – should have been included on the original release of Windows 8”.

              Thanks for re-stating what I said. MS put the public through a ridiculous, half-baked, train-wreck of an OS against what the majority of beta testers reported. They are now releasing their patch- and only because their sales were worse for 8 than for Vista (now, that’s quite an achievement!). If the ones still running XP can hold out, I say wait for 9.



      2. More misinformation on this thread. 8.1 is a FREE upgrade if you have 8.0. I’ve installed it on over a dozen 8.0 devices from desktops to laptops to tablets. Get your facts straight before you post.

  23. The biggest bug, to me, in these recent incarnations of Windows is that I can open the same document more than once in separate windows–without any kind of warning. There might exist instances in which that might be useful, but the problem arises when you forget that you have the document open, and start editing it after having been editing it in the first window. Eventually, you end up with two different edited versions of it, and, saving the first one is no problem, which you might do before you realize that there were two windows. Then you find out that there's a second window with different edits, and you have to waste untold amounts of time trying to reconcile your edits.

  24. If you are using a Windows 8 notebook that has a Synaptecs touchpad, such as is widely built into most HP notebooks, you can turn off “Edge Swipes” in the Control Panel, using the Synaptecs Touchpad applet. “Windows key” + X will allow access to the Control Panel, or search for “CONT” from the “Metro” START page. Switch the Control Panel from “category” view to “small icon” view. Left click on the red Synaptecs Touchpad applet icon. When the Synaptecs configuration dialog appears, uncheck the “Enable Edge Swipes” option. With this setting disabled, the Charms only appear if you move your touchpad cursor to the extreme right hand corners of the screen, or you use the “Windows key” + C hotkey combination… and no longer just because you simply let your finger stray too close to the right edge of your touchpad. This will not effect your touch screen if you have one.

    Oh, BTW, also uncheck “Pinch Zoom” while you are there. This feature causes a lot of mistaken zooming in and out of the screen while you type and accidently let your thumbs or palms graze the touchpad during key strokes. Again, your touchSCREEN gestures are unaffected by this configuration change.

    Other makes of touchpads may have something similar, but milage will vary between brands.

    I hope you find this helpful.

  25. I feel sure this must all be blown out of proportion. I use Win 7 and have for ages but my wife has insistented she stay with xp. Well…after casting an eye over her dreadful monitor and layout I decided to buy her a new monitor and Windows 8.1 She is DELIGHTED and my burden lightened. It’s far more intuitive than is Win 7 but I can’t choose an upgrade just yet. Let’s see if she can find something to complain about first.

  26. While I find that annoying Windows 8/8.1 operations sometimes still have a way of popping up within certain applications, Classic Shell 4.02 can be utilized to largely eliminate these.

    With that said, it is my opinion that the Windows 8 app based setup isn't at all suitable for non Touch Screen Desktop/Laptop PCs. It is also my opinion that any future Windows Operating Systems ought to give users the option to choose their preferred setup (Classic Windows vs. Application Based Windows.) within the O.S. installation process!


  27. As I see it the issue is not with Windows 8 but rather with old habits that you refuse to change. Yes Windows 8 does things a little differently, so learn to adjust to it.
    I’ve worked with all Windows OS’s since Windows 3.1 and found each one had differences to relearn. Windows 8 is no different, and I find it to be a good operating system.

  28. We need systems for business, our staff refuses to be stuck with win8. We gave them a budget of $800 to get a laptop of their choice, all of them got Win7. We do not have the luxury of retraining our crew for Microsoft’s folly. We are being sold a bill of goods about the death of the laptop and desk top, the reason new sales are down is that people still feel the sting from Vista. Give us a choice, do not ram rod some BS marketing ploy down our throats.

  29. Guess I’m not smart enough, but I can’t reproduce this on my Windows 8.1 desktop. Does it make a difference if you use two screens? Anyway I don’t have a lot of sympathy for this kind of sentiment. We should all be driving Model T Fords according to this.

  30. Upgrade to Windows 8.1. (for free) I agree that Windows 8 is almost unusable for getting work done in the traditional business sense. I still prefer Windows 7, but you can configure Win 8.1 to look and work almost exactly like Win 7.

  31. As stated before just install the free “classic Shell”. In fact this is better than WIN 98/XP/7 as I can finally set up the Start Menu the way I want it. One thing I’ve done is to put my common stuff on the bottom of recently used programs. This comes in handy when I change the screen resolution. The last used might not display (as the top items are cut off) but my common list is never cut off. I’ve also eliminated those pieces of the Start Menu I’ve never used.

  32. just install start 8 ,classic shell or any number of start button programs and setup however you like no more charms or whatever irritates you.

  33. Just end your relationship with MS & try Linux Mint.

    I’ve used Mint, exclusively, for over 5 years now & I am smitten. See what you think. Have a go from a live DVD- no risk, & you might find it’s a better fit.

    1. @Tracy: I tried running Ubuntu from the CD once because I did want to end my relationship with MS. But I didn’t find it very user friendly/intuitive at all. I also hated the very plain graphics. But maybe I will give Linux Mint a go…..

      1. @Sheri:

        RE: Mint. Yes, please do have a peek at it. When you download the Mint image, you need to choose 32 or 64 bit- according to your processor. If it’s older & running XP, it’s likely 32. When you get the complete file, use your burning program & choose to “burn image”- then browse & point it to the Mint .ISO (image) file.

        Boot to that disc & have a play. You can even “browse” your MS/XP hard drive whilst running the live Mint DVD. I show people every chance I get & have switched a lot of pensioners to Mint. 🙂

  34. I really wonder ware Microsofts heads went really it is like they are intent on committing suicide, they are so hell bent on getting into the app world, but they waited about three years too long, not that they won’t get any of that market! But if Microsoft doesn’t show a bit more care for their customer needs there pockets will continue to lose money!, Any average grade school kid could see this coming. Win 8 stinks and is even hurting business world wide. I don’t care if some of you like windows 8 simply put, there is not enough people that can even use it for their needs. Yes, I’m a PC tech And I, like so many others even worned them in many feedbacks.

    1. @Dan: You might be a “PC Tech” Dan, but you can’t spell as well as an “average grade school kid” Try where instead of ware, and warned instead of worned.
      I agree Microsoft is very good at shooting itself in the foot.

  35. I have 8.1 and don’t have that problem with the charms bar. I’m set up to use the desktop so it looks just like 7 did. I rarely go into the tiled mode. If I want the Charms bar, I just swipe the upper right corner and it’s there.

    1. @Grandma: Wow, really? I upgraded to Windows 8.1 but only had it for a few days before I had to ‘refresh’ my PC, which caused it to return to Windows 8.0!!!! But I didn’t know that you could set 8.1 up to use the desktop, so thanks for the heads up. Will try and do that when I get the 8.1 update again.

  36. Have you tried right clicking on the toolbar at the bottom of the screen? You can click on Properties, and then on the Navigation Tab you can turn off some of the charms.

  37. Barbara H Staples

    I am a new user of Windows 8 and have upgraded to Windows 8.1. Though there was quite a large learning curve from Vista I am getting to like the new version very much. My biggest complaine is that every time I try to fill in blanks on a program another page comes up in the way telling me I need to update a player. I don’t know how many times I’m supposed to do that but I should think once is enough. It is very annoying and there should be a way to stop these popups as I call them. Otherwise eight is a good version. I also liked Vista and don’t understand why there was so much complaining about it. I guess no matter what comes down the pike in the future there will always be someone to dislike it. To answer the fellow who had to buy eight because he couldn’t find a seven, Dell still sells version 7.

  38. I wish someone could tell me how, in Windows 8, to copy text in an email and paste it elsewhere. I have searched for a solution and found several, none of which work. It was SO simple in my old Windows XL.

    1. @Stan Baldwin: I haven’t tried copying and pasting text through the Mail APP on the start screen because I hate the way folders pop into and out of view. But I use from the desktop and can copy text from emails and paste them into notepad or a word processor, the same as you can with any other document:-)

  39. Agree 100% – MIcrosoft introduced Office 2007 and Win-7, arbitrarily changing the UIs to destroy the value of the experience, training and efficiency of millions of workers without providing any alternative (incidentally without fixing a number of bugs in Excel). This probably cost businesses millions – Where are the class-action lawsuits ?

    1. @KdF:

      I agree 100%

      Even Google has followed- with their home page now made up of primary coloured blocks…It’s gotten ridiculous, really. We went from a usable tool of a computer–> to a silly UI on the desktop (which is actually designed for a mobile phone) all to make things easier on MS??

      It isn’t a matter of users not wanting to change- it is a matter of MS releasing a horrid OS. I’ve swapped & changed OS’s for quite a while now- between many Linux, Mac, & MS- so I’m not afraid of change. I do, however, dislike being led by the nose & told something is great when it’s rubbish. 8, is rubbish- no matter how many MS moles are planted into the various forums to dispute it.

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